Lesson 32
Noobie
Noobie
I Don't Understand
What? Come again? Sorry? One more time? Today, we learn how to gracefully communicate that we have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
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everything in this lesson?
Ahmed
Hello guys at TTT really good jop ,and im really eager to learn türkçe but just a thought , why dont u guys instead of the pod cast make it as a video , would be much helpful to see how the words are spoken , thanks ;)
Aylin
@Raoul: Geniş zaman is often used to express intention, as well as habitual action. So, something like "Odamı toplarım" (I will clean my room) is closer to a future tense with conviction or promise, rather than something habitual.
You can think of the geniş zaman in sentences like "ne istersiniz" and "tekrar eder misiniz" as more closely filling this role. It also has a connotation of being more polite than some of the alternatives.
Of course, you can also say "ne istiyorsunuz." There's no huge difference, though there's a slight difference in connotation sometimes. "Gidiyor musun?" is more literally a question about whether or not you are actually going; "gider misin?" also implies a certain curiosity about your intentions (although in a certain context, I may be asking about your habitual going to a place).
You can think of the geniş zaman in sentences like "ne istersiniz" and "tekrar eder misiniz" as more closely filling this role. It also has a connotation of being more polite than some of the alternatives.
Of course, you can also say "ne istiyorsunuz." There's no huge difference, though there's a slight difference in connotation sometimes. "Gidiyor musun?" is more literally a question about whether or not you are actually going; "gider misin?" also implies a certain curiosity about your intentions (although in a certain context, I may be asking about your habitual going to a place).
Justin
@Öğrenci: Thanks so much! :)
We would love to make videos, and we're planning on doing some in the near future. In this daily lesson format, we just don't have the bandwidth.
We would love to make videos, and we're planning on doing some in the near future. In this daily lesson format, we just don't have the bandwidth.
Sara
I love it
Öğrenci
Thank you very much Justin and Aylin , good job.
Robyn
Jokes have their place in learning but as a catlover and vegetarian I didn't appreciate the 'cat durum' joke Aylin - please be aware of the sensitivities of your client base - really put me off learning in this module! Also could you add some phrases that might be useful to vegetarians who generally have a hard time eating out in most countries. Thanks x
Aylin
Oh no! I'm so sorry Robyn! I didn't mean to cause any offense :(
That's a good idea! We'll work on a lesson that feature useful phrases for vegetarians :)
That's a good idea! We'll work on a lesson that feature useful phrases for vegetarians :)
Patricia
Working my way up with the noobie lessons, so I'm responding to the podcast later than its posting. Ama, teşekkür ederim for the explanation of this funky aorist tense. So, for example, does Su içerim mean "I drink water [usually]" and Su içiyorum mean "I am drinking water [right this moment]"? Interestingly, it seems that in English, the participle form refers to what you are doing right now at this moment, whereas the "plain" present tense means what you do habitually: "Do you drink alcohol?" "Yes, I drink [I drink sometimes]." "Are you drinking?" "Yes, I am drinking [this very moment]."
Justin
Ah yes, you're experiencing exactly the pains you should as a growing Turkish learner :)
In a nutshell, the explanation provided here is the standard "textbook" explanation. The equivalent in English:
Present Continous
Geliyorum
I am coming
Geniş Zaman (Simple Present, Aorist)
Gelirim
I come
Your basic understanding is exactly correct, but in actual spoken Turkish, the present continuous (-iyor) is overwhelmingly preferred, even for habitual actions. We do it sometimes in English, too:
I'm going to the gym every Sunday. (habitual)
I'm running every day in the summer. (habitual)
In Turkish, you are much more likely to hear:
Pazar günü koşuyorum.
rather than,
Pazar günü koşarım.
It's more common in unchanging universal facts: the sun rises in the east. Turkish people come from Turkey. You'll also see it in other places in Turkish grammar, like being used to complete a conditional "if" statement or to express future tense in a less definite way than -ecek conveys.
That's a bit scattered, but I thought I'd give you a bit of a preview and context. I think it's important to have the basic understanding, from which you will pick up the nuances and colloquial usage in time. My main point is that the line between present continuous (-iyor) and geniş zaman (-er,-ir) is very fuzzy, so don't go crazy with frustration when you see -iyor being used for habitual action (because you will, a lot).
In a nutshell, the explanation provided here is the standard "textbook" explanation. The equivalent in English:
Present Continous
Geliyorum
I am coming
Geniş Zaman (Simple Present, Aorist)
Gelirim
I come
Your basic understanding is exactly correct, but in actual spoken Turkish, the present continuous (-iyor) is overwhelmingly preferred, even for habitual actions. We do it sometimes in English, too:
I'm going to the gym every Sunday. (habitual)
I'm running every day in the summer. (habitual)
In Turkish, you are much more likely to hear:
Pazar günü koşuyorum.
rather than,
Pazar günü koşarım.
It's more common in unchanging universal facts: the sun rises in the east. Turkish people come from Turkey. You'll also see it in other places in Turkish grammar, like being used to complete a conditional "if" statement or to express future tense in a less definite way than -ecek conveys.
That's a bit scattered, but I thought I'd give you a bit of a preview and context. I think it's important to have the basic understanding, from which you will pick up the nuances and colloquial usage in time. My main point is that the line between present continuous (-iyor) and geniş zaman (-er,-ir) is very fuzzy, so don't go crazy with frustration when you see -iyor being used for habitual action (because you will, a lot).
Patricia
"You are experiencing exactly the pains you should": Spoken like a true obstetrician! :)
Yes, thanks for this detailed explanation. I think you are right about just getting used to how they say it in Turkish. Which also explains why my Turkish friends here in U.S. have an odd way of saying things (to my ear), like "I am drinking cherry juice every day because it's good for my health." So besides learning a little Turkish, I am learning to appreciate the unusual form of English spoken by my Turkish friends! And speaking of understanding one another, I am much more forgiving when a Turkish person says in English: "I love my mother's cooking; he really makes great soups!" Because now I realize that Turkish has no masculine-feminine pronouns, so it's sometimes difficult for a Turk to remember to use the right pronoun. I've seen people really give my friend a strange look when he made this mistake--as if his mom were a transvestite or something! But knowing just a teeny bit of the language helped me realize it's just a grammar struggle, not a sexual identity crisis, haha!
Yes, thanks for this detailed explanation. I think you are right about just getting used to how they say it in Turkish. Which also explains why my Turkish friends here in U.S. have an odd way of saying things (to my ear), like "I am drinking cherry juice every day because it's good for my health." So besides learning a little Turkish, I am learning to appreciate the unusual form of English spoken by my Turkish friends! And speaking of understanding one another, I am much more forgiving when a Turkish person says in English: "I love my mother's cooking; he really makes great soups!" Because now I realize that Turkish has no masculine-feminine pronouns, so it's sometimes difficult for a Turk to remember to use the right pronoun. I've seen people really give my friend a strange look when he made this mistake--as if his mom were a transvestite or something! But knowing just a teeny bit of the language helped me realize it's just a grammar struggle, not a sexual identity crisis, haha!
Bernardo
Hello guys, I have a question about the "or" in Turkish.
In this lesson there was a "veya", but I'm pretty sure I've seen "yoksa" being used as an English "or" in other ones. Particularly in the small talk lesson ("Okuyor musun yoksa çalışıyor musun?" I think was the phrase there).
Are they both interchangeable or is there a difference I'm missing between them?
Great job with TTT, and hugs from Brazil. :)
In this lesson there was a "veya", but I'm pretty sure I've seen "yoksa" being used as an English "or" in other ones. Particularly in the small talk lesson ("Okuyor musun yoksa çalışıyor musun?" I think was the phrase there).
Are they both interchangeable or is there a difference I'm missing between them?
Great job with TTT, and hugs from Brazil. :)
Justin
Merhaba from Istanbul!
Good question, because there is, in fact, a difference.
"Veya" is the "or" that we use between two options.
Sinemaya veya evine gitmek istiyoruz.
We want to go to the movies or his house. (one of the two - it doesn't matter)
"Ya da" can be used interchangeably with "veya."
"Yoksa," on the other hand, is used when presenting an alternative in the case that first option is no good. Literally, yok + sa translates to "if not."
Evine mi, yoksa sinemaya mı gideceğiz?
Will we go to his house or the cinema? (with the implication that we go to the cinema if we don't go to his house)
Gitmem lazım yoksa sınırlenir.
I need to go or else she'll get angry.
Hope that clears things up!
Good question, because there is, in fact, a difference.
"Veya" is the "or" that we use between two options.
Sinemaya veya evine gitmek istiyoruz.
We want to go to the movies or his house. (one of the two - it doesn't matter)
"Ya da" can be used interchangeably with "veya."
"Yoksa," on the other hand, is used when presenting an alternative in the case that first option is no good. Literally, yok + sa translates to "if not."
Evine mi, yoksa sinemaya mı gideceğiz?
Will we go to his house or the cinema? (with the implication that we go to the cinema if we don't go to his house)
Gitmem lazım yoksa sınırlenir.
I need to go or else she'll get angry.
Hope that clears things up!
But in the examples it is not habitual:
'Tekrar eder misiniz can you repeat?'
'Ne istersiniz?'
For me normally I would choose şimdiki zaman for it '-iyour'.
But I know this is often the case in Turkish, that geniş zaman is being used where I would expect şimdiki zaman.
Is there some kind of general rule for this?