Lesson 125
Intermediate
Intermediate
I Love Him More
Unrequited love is the worst. Luckily, you'll always have a loving friend in us. Here, buddy, have a lesson on adverbial -dikçe.
Psst! Want to access
everything in this lesson?
everything in this lesson?
nur
:( this dialogue made me sad :( specially there is no solution for her to get over it :))
Jan 06, 2014
Dom
Since the more we write to you the happier you are....I've been looking everywhere for a formal discussion of sevesim, and similar words, without success. Your explanation of it is clear, but it doesn't appear in this form in any grammar book at all....or does it? If so where?
Justin
I personally have never found it in any grammar books - I only discovered it by hearing Turks say it on the streets here. We are doing a lesson on it next week, though - so look forward to that!
Dom
Thanks, I will. There's apparently an old form used for curses which is quite similar...
Justin
Ha, did you find that in Lewis? He usually saves us if we can't find any other resources, but in this case he just had the brief passage on - like you mentioned - old curses.
Dom
That's right - it's very amusing. But in his explanation you can see how it might be somewhat similar. And there's something in google books about Balkan Turkish...which I can't find again. But I did find a lot of ranting about Lewis, and how he misunderstood this suffix. Perhaps you've seen it: in particular... www.turkishclass.com/sfa/turkce/forumTitle_6146
Apologies if putting links in the comments is against policy. Hope you find it interesting though.
Apologies if putting links in the comments is against policy. Hope you find it interesting though.
Justin
Yeah, I also saw that googling around. Hopefully we do a good job next week presenting it. Büşra has some good insights with her linguistics background that helped me make sense of it.
Frank
Onları gördükçe onları seviyorum.
I notice that the Present Continuous is used with dikce.
To me a habitual repeated action is implied, so I would have expected the simple present to be used ?
I notice that the Present Continuous is used with dikce.
To me a habitual repeated action is implied, so I would have expected the simple present to be used ?
Justin
The simple present would be perfectly acceptable here. However:
This question comes up a lot. It's to the point now where Büşra and I debate whether or not to really teach geniş zaman as a habitual tense at all. In fact, when I first arrived in Turkey and started hearing native Turkish every day, I was most surprised by this same thing. My grammar books taught the simple present as the habitual tense, so why were these Turks using present continuous to express what were obviously habitual actions? What's more, Turks would correct me when I tried to use simple present "by the book." Not that it was wrong - it just sounded unnatural to them.
The truth is this - the present continuous is overwhelmingly more common than the simple present and is (by my observation, at least) more common in expressing habitual action.
This question comes up a lot. It's to the point now where Büşra and I debate whether or not to really teach geniş zaman as a habitual tense at all. In fact, when I first arrived in Turkey and started hearing native Turkish every day, I was most surprised by this same thing. My grammar books taught the simple present as the habitual tense, so why were these Turks using present continuous to express what were obviously habitual actions? What's more, Turks would correct me when I tried to use simple present "by the book." Not that it was wrong - it just sounded unnatural to them.
The truth is this - the present continuous is overwhelmingly more common than the simple present and is (by my observation, at least) more common in expressing habitual action.
Andy B
Ben Türkçe çalıştıkça daha öğreniyorum........inşallah
Would this be correct ?
Andy B
Would this be correct ?
Andy B
Justin
Looks good! In this case, Büşra says "daha çok öğreniyorum" sounds better colloquially.
Martha
Merhaba! Can you please explain why the following sentence from the dialogue does not take the object suffix on "platonik aşkim."
Platonik aşkım ben kovaladıkça kaçıyor.
Since she is saying "my" platonic love, would that not make it a specific object? And I see in the dictionary that "kovalamak" would use the accusative. Is it something about the "-dikçe" construction itself? Or maybe it's something I'm just not getting.
Thanks, as always, for putting up with my questions. :)
Çok teşekkür ederim!
Platonik aşkım ben kovaladıkça kaçıyor.
Since she is saying "my" platonic love, would that not make it a specific object? And I see in the dictionary that "kovalamak" would use the accusative. Is it something about the "-dikçe" construction itself? Or maybe it's something I'm just not getting.
Thanks, as always, for putting up with my questions. :)
Çok teşekkür ederim!
Justin
Merhaba! Sıkıntı yok! Burdayız sizin için.
You are right that "platonik aşkım" is a specific thing, but it's not a direct object (as you probably know, the two requirements for the accusative). There are actually two subjects in this sentence - that of the main sentence (platonik aşkım) and that of the subordinated phrase (ben in "ben kovaladıkça"). Let me know if this break down makes sense:
Aşkım kaçıyor.
My love is escaping.
Ben kovalıyorum.
I am chasing.
Aşkım, ben kovaladıkça, kaçıyor.
My love, as I chase, is escaping.
My guess is that you might have been parsing it more like this:
Aşkım, ben onu kovaladıkça, kaçıyor.
My love, as I run away from him, is escaping.
, which has the same meaning, but that "onu" is simply implied in the original sentence.
You are right that "platonik aşkım" is a specific thing, but it's not a direct object (as you probably know, the two requirements for the accusative). There are actually two subjects in this sentence - that of the main sentence (platonik aşkım) and that of the subordinated phrase (ben in "ben kovaladıkça"). Let me know if this break down makes sense:
Aşkım kaçıyor.
My love is escaping.
Ben kovalıyorum.
I am chasing.
Aşkım, ben kovaladıkça, kaçıyor.
My love, as I chase, is escaping.
My guess is that you might have been parsing it more like this:
Aşkım, ben onu kovaladıkça, kaçıyor.
My love, as I run away from him, is escaping.
, which has the same meaning, but that "onu" is simply implied in the original sentence.
Martha
Üf! Şimdi anladım! ... Evet, haklısın. I was thinking that "platonik aşkım" was an object and that the subject was implied with "kaçiyor." I had it the wrong way around. ... Teşekkürler!
Paul
Loved the spoof calls to the kebab salonu! Hilarious!
To answer your question about what you should do now that you have gone through all of the grammar points, I would love it if you started a series of review lessons in the style of your brilliant 'Review' tabs. I think it would be particularly useful if you focused on distinguishing between easily confused forms such as -dikçe and -erek. BTW, I love your English to Turkish translation exercises; I'm planning to keep doing them until I get them all 100% correct! Lots more of these would be great!
To answer your question about what you should do now that you have gone through all of the grammar points, I would love it if you started a series of review lessons in the style of your brilliant 'Review' tabs. I think it would be particularly useful if you focused on distinguishing between easily confused forms such as -dikçe and -erek. BTW, I love your English to Turkish translation exercises; I'm planning to keep doing them until I get them all 100% correct! Lots more of these would be great!
Can
is there an inverted form for -dikçe?
so far all phrasings start with "the more I do"
can it be used for "the less I do...... blah blah blah" or is that expressed in a totally different way?
so far all phrasings start with "the more I do"
can it be used for "the less I do...... blah blah blah" or is that expressed in a totally different way?
Justin
Büşra says no, there's no distinct form to express "the less I do. . ."
You can, however, add the negative suffix to the root, though that really means "the more I don't do. . ." For example: yapmadıkça.
Translated into Turkish, Büşra suggests that you'd more likely hear a form like:
Eğer yapmazsam. . . (if I don't do. . .)
Yapmadığım için. . . (because I didn't do. . .)
This is one of those cases where a 1 to 1 direct translation is elusive.
You can, however, add the negative suffix to the root, though that really means "the more I don't do. . ." For example: yapmadıkça.
Translated into Turkish, Büşra suggests that you'd more likely hear a form like:
Eğer yapmazsam. . . (if I don't do. . .)
Yapmadığım için. . . (because I didn't do. . .)
This is one of those cases where a 1 to 1 direct translation is elusive.
