Lesson 109
Beginner
Beginner
People are Delicious
Join us today for a special Halloween episode of Turkish Tea Time in which we look at the Turkish tendency to express emotions in the past tense. Alright, it's really not that scary. . .
Psst! Want to access
everything in this lesson?
everything in this lesson?
Justin
Çok teşekkür ederiz! :D
Frank
Last word in the Language section
kiskandim I think ?
Kiskanc-- Is it anything to do with blood--kan ?
A word I like is "delikan". I heard it when three young boys were riding a scooter all at once, zooming up and down the road.
"Mad blood" I believe. By coincidence, begins in the same way as delinquent.
kiskandim I think ?
Kiskanc-- Is it anything to do with blood--kan ?
A word I like is "delikan". I heard it when three young boys were riding a scooter all at once, zooming up and down the road.
"Mad blood" I believe. By coincidence, begins in the same way as delinquent.
Justin
Good question. "Kıs" doesn't mean anything by itself in modern Turkish. "Kıs kıs gülmek" means "to snicker," sort of "to laugh in a menacing way," so it's definitely possible that kıskanç is derived from some very old Ottoman form combining "menacing" and "blood."
Öğrenci
Dear Justin,
Is there a lesson where the reason for both following forms is explained: sıkıldılar, sıkıllardı.
Thanks for your awesome job!
Is there a lesson where the reason for both following forms is explained: sıkıldılar, sıkıllardı.
Thanks for your awesome job!
Justin
That's a really good question. First, of all, I see why you're asking, and it's based on a typo. I went ahead and fixed it. You'll see what I mean.
So, there are many cases in Turkish where -lerdi and -diler are interchangeable. For example, on adjectives:
zenginlerdi = they were rich
zengindiler = they were rich
And on complex verb tenses:
gelmiştiler = they had come
gelmişlerdi = they had come
konuşuyorlardı = they were speaking
konuşuyordular = they were speaking
There is no difference between those pairs of words.
HOWEVER, (and where we made our stupid mistake), they are not reversible on the case of simple past tense. Why? Because -ler can never go directly on a verb root. There always has to be another suffix between the root and -ler. So,
geldiler = they came (yes, correct)
gellerdi = WRONG (-ler on verb stem = NEVER)
sıkıldılar = good
sıkıllardı = NOPE
Sorry for confusing you. Hopefully this clears everything up.
(As a final note, some of these forms are preferred over the other by native speakers. "Konuşuyordular," for example, sounds weird but is grammatically acceptable. If you're interested in knowing the preferred forms, I'll go grab Busra.)
So, there are many cases in Turkish where -lerdi and -diler are interchangeable. For example, on adjectives:
zenginlerdi = they were rich
zengindiler = they were rich
And on complex verb tenses:
gelmiştiler = they had come
gelmişlerdi = they had come
konuşuyorlardı = they were speaking
konuşuyordular = they were speaking
There is no difference between those pairs of words.
HOWEVER, (and where we made our stupid mistake), they are not reversible on the case of simple past tense. Why? Because -ler can never go directly on a verb root. There always has to be another suffix between the root and -ler. So,
geldiler = they came (yes, correct)
gellerdi = WRONG (-ler on verb stem = NEVER)
sıkıldılar = good
sıkıllardı = NOPE
Sorry for confusing you. Hopefully this clears everything up.
(As a final note, some of these forms are preferred over the other by native speakers. "Konuşuyordular," for example, sounds weird but is grammatically acceptable. If you're interested in knowing the preferred forms, I'll go grab Busra.)
Öğrenci
Hi justin,
Thanks for your detailed answer. It does clear things up.
Another item I have trouble figuring out is almost anything with "olmak". Today, for example, I saw "olduklarını": " Türklerin çok farklı ve ilginç insanlar olduklarını düşünüyorum".
Is there any lesson regarding this?
Thanks again for the great work!
ma rise
Thanks for your detailed answer. It does clear things up.
Another item I have trouble figuring out is almost anything with "olmak". Today, for example, I saw "olduklarını": " Türklerin çok farklı ve ilginç insanlar olduklarını düşünüyorum".
Is there any lesson regarding this?
Thanks again for the great work!
ma rise
Justin
Merhaba!
We don't have any specific lessons on olmak - though I think it's an excellent idea. I'll add it to our list. It's tough to distill down to a single point, but I think even just a dialog with a ton of examples will be helpful.
The confusion sources from the fact that "to be" is not usually a verb in basic Turkish sentences - we just use the personal suffix and we're done. The problem comes when we use constructions that explicitly require a verb to work. In your sentence, for example, düşünmek requires a -dik subordination that needs a verb. So, the simple sentence:
"Türklerin çok farklı ve ilginç insanlar"
,needs a verb to be subordinated. But what verb do we use? Well, olmak, because we're talking about people *being* different and interesting.
Very literally, olduklarını düşünüyorum = I think that they are.
I know where you're coming from. You just need to see a lot of these sentences to get the hang of it.
We don't have any specific lessons on olmak - though I think it's an excellent idea. I'll add it to our list. It's tough to distill down to a single point, but I think even just a dialog with a ton of examples will be helpful.
The confusion sources from the fact that "to be" is not usually a verb in basic Turkish sentences - we just use the personal suffix and we're done. The problem comes when we use constructions that explicitly require a verb to work. In your sentence, for example, düşünmek requires a -dik subordination that needs a verb. So, the simple sentence:
"Türklerin çok farklı ve ilginç insanlar"
,needs a verb to be subordinated. But what verb do we use? Well, olmak, because we're talking about people *being* different and interesting.
Very literally, olduklarını düşünüyorum = I think that they are.
I know where you're coming from. You just need to see a lot of these sentences to get the hang of it.
John
Hi Justin,
Thanks for all the Turkish Tea Time stuff.
A really quick question from your example sentences.
Why in the second sentence below does 'kıskandım' change to 'kısdandım'. Is it some type of substitution? If so, why?
Kız arkadaşımı çok kıskandım.
I'm very jealous of my girlfriend.
Geçen yaz eski kız arkadaşımı çok kısdandım.
Last summer, I was very jealous of my ex-girlfriend.
Thx,
John
Thanks for all the Turkish Tea Time stuff.
A really quick question from your example sentences.
Why in the second sentence below does 'kıskandım' change to 'kısdandım'. Is it some type of substitution? If so, why?
Kız arkadaşımı çok kıskandım.
I'm very jealous of my girlfriend.
Geçen yaz eski kız arkadaşımı çok kısdandım.
Last summer, I was very jealous of my ex-girlfriend.
Thx,
John
Öğrenci
HI, thanks a lot for your great website and this lesson. This has always been hard for me to figure out.
I have a question about the last examples:
Kız arkadaşımı çok kıskandım
Geçen yaz eski kız arkadaşımı çok kısdandım.
First, I assume that the verb in the second example is supposed to be kıskandım also. Is that correct?
Second, and more importantly, you used these examples to show how the context make the time of the idea of there verb clear. But the first example could also be past time, right? I was jealous of my girlfriend (and it's implied or stated that I'm not jealous of her anymore). The only reason I ask is that I really don't know how to show the difference between, for example, I'm hungry (Açıktım, right?) and I was hungry (Açıktım). Is there no way to show that with just the verb?
Thanks a lot :)
Kevin
I have a question about the last examples:
Kız arkadaşımı çok kıskandım
Geçen yaz eski kız arkadaşımı çok kısdandım.
First, I assume that the verb in the second example is supposed to be kıskandım also. Is that correct?
Second, and more importantly, you used these examples to show how the context make the time of the idea of there verb clear. But the first example could also be past time, right? I was jealous of my girlfriend (and it's implied or stated that I'm not jealous of her anymore). The only reason I ask is that I really don't know how to show the difference between, for example, I'm hungry (Açıktım, right?) and I was hungry (Açıktım). Is there no way to show that with just the verb?
Thanks a lot :)
Kevin
This is the very best course for Turkish, I love it!
Your explanations are great and the online design is beautiful to handle with.
I tried for many years to learn Turkish, but in your first 3 lessons I just looked into I got so much missing informations about spoken Turkish for what I wondered so long time.