Star Wars Geeks
Lesson 44beginner Turkish Beginner
Star Wars Geeks
We don't know how many in our audience are Star Wars geeks like us, but we do know Han shot first and that today's lesson is perfect for learning how to say "both" and "neither" in Turkish.
How to say "both" and "neither."
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Merhaba Turkish Team Time Team,
I just wanted to let you know that looks there is a typo in Language Points in the example of ordinal numbers. Altı was changed to Altınca instead of Altıncı. Teşekkürler
Dec 17, 2013
Whoops - great catch. Thank you! :)
Dec 19, 2013
Do the verbs in these constructions work just as they do in English? In other words, if you say, "Both Joe and Fred are coming to the party," you use a plural verb. If you say, "Neither Joe nor Fred is coming to the party," you use a singular verb.

From the sentences we are asked to write in the review, it appears that the verb is singular in both these cases in Turkish. Would you ever say: "Hem Joe hem de Fred partiye gidiyorlar"? And what if the subjects are a mixed bag -- Joe and his sisters, for instance?

Mar 12, 2014
Excellent question. I remember grilling Büşra about this myself when we made this lesson.

For "hem," either is fine. "Hem Joe hem de Fred partiye gidiyorlar" is totally acceptable.

Same for mixed subjects. However, that has less to do with singular/plural subjects, and more to do with Turkish's tendency to usually prefer using the singular third person, even in plural cases (for example, "Onun kardeşleri gidiyor" is perfectly fine). As far as the technical grammar stuff goes, I believe it's functioning just like in English like you described in your first paragraph. It's just less important since they opt for the singular form either way.

Does that make sense? Feel free to follow up.
Mar 12, 2014
I found it a bit confusing that you say that Ne can also be used positively as "and". It can't, can it?! Also the dialogue you guys are discussing is deviating from what's written (second paragraph).

How disappointing that the Fun part is not turkish starwars! You set me up to look forward to that. :)

And finally, I don't want to be just negative: Great job on the website! It's perfect! I started listening the podcasts last year and stopped because it was just not sinking in by just listening. but now that i finally found the website I'm very happy with it!

One feature idea: in the Language Points section you could maybe make the example translations hidden until mouse-over, to make us think a little bit more. :)
Mar 22, 2014
Merhaba Dex! No worries - we love your comments :)

And sorry about that - I recall that we had to change something last minute and since we sometimes do the different components separately, things happened to get mixed up on this one. Though, I think it's not too dramatic of a change.

Hmm, did we say that "ne" could be used as "and" in the podcast? Let me go back and listen to it, because off the top of my head, that doesn't sound right. If we said something wrong, we'll go back and rerecord this one. Thanks so much for pointing that out.
Mar 24, 2014
Hi Justin,
Can I take up Dex's point about the disparity between the text and your discussion. In the text it says 'işe yarar' which fits the sentence 'neither is any good'. But in your discussion you say 'işe yaramaz'. In the vocabulary 'işe yaramaz' is translated as 'not any good', which would not be the appropriate grammatical construction. So it's always a single negative here?

My researches suggest that 'işe yarar' means 'of benefit to the job'...maybe a comment in the language points would help here.

Thanks once again for your splendid work.
Jun 20, 2017
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